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Post by Qualerei on Nov 2, 2006 21:05:34 GMT -5
I just read Eisenhower came from a German American family. That made me wonder... what if his parents had stayed in Germany ? What if he'd been born a German ? Now, there's room to think...
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Post by Desert Stallion on Nov 3, 2006 19:10:58 GMT -5
Who knows what may have happened? He may have never even gone into the military. If he had, he might have been killed in some battle. Or maybe his genius would have prolonged the war much longer. Interesting thought...
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Post by Qualerei on Nov 3, 2006 21:01:24 GMT -5
Hey, maybe he'd have become the next German leader instead of Hitler... Thinking of which, it'd be funny to imagine a swap - Hitler as an American leader, Eisenhower as a German leader. Who'd have been the bad guys ? But I guess that's too vast a subject...
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Post by Desert Stallion on Nov 4, 2006 9:04:23 GMT -5
Boy, that is a really vast subject. It would deal with things like a nation's character, and personalities of different peoples (For instance, the Germans had always been very military and strict and disciplined. Americans were more laid back and ready to talk before war. They probably wouldn't have gone along far with Hitler's power-hungry plans. He probably wouldn't have gotten past a very small rally of about 30 people.) Also, the state of the countries would be an isssue. Germany was ripe for a turnover in politics, with all its post-war trouble. America, though in the depression, was still far more secure and content. Good "what if" there; that made me think for a minute.
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Post by Qualerei on Nov 4, 2006 10:18:40 GMT -5
Maybe with Eisenhower in Germany, he'd have become a leader, and rebuilt Germany after the Versailles treaty, only without all the nazi bad things. He'd have created another party, like... *thinks* Vaterlandisch und Militar Partei. That would make for the Vatmil party. lol
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Post by Desert Stallion on Nov 9, 2006 17:27:25 GMT -5
I wonder what would have happened if Germany had been on the good side, maybe fighting Russia, Japan, and Italy? I guess Germany and not France would have become the major war zone at the start of the war.
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Post by Desert Stallion on Nov 9, 2006 17:27:50 GMT -5
It and Poland and all the little countries around it.
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Post by Qualerei on Nov 9, 2006 18:41:26 GMT -5
Yeah, probably, but I heard a lot of their industries had been buried before the beginning of the war, so it wasn't nearly as much destroyed as French industries. That's why after the war it took us much longer to rebuild.
On the other hand, with Germany on the Allies side, I'm not sure Russia would have been strong enough to make the war last longer than a few month. Although, they did have some pretty rough winters, which seem to be their greatest natural defense. It caused Napoleon and Hitler's defeat, after all...
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Post by Desert Stallion on Nov 11, 2006 17:09:04 GMT -5
General Mud and General Winter were pretty formidable foes, weren't they? You'd think Hitler would have learned after reading about Napoleon. Good thing he didn't learn. Pride goes before a fall, and evidently he thought he could beat the Russians at their own game.
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Post by Qualerei on Nov 12, 2006 16:37:13 GMT -5
That's the funny thing, about both Napoleon and Hitler. Hmm, never thought I'd put those two names in the same sentence... On the other hand, while we consider Napoleon a national hero, I've hear he's not so popular in other countries... Well, I guess I can't blame them, considering they were on the other side. What was I saying... ah yes. That's the funny thing with both Napoleon and Hitler, they built a European Empire, only, instead of securing it, all they thought about was new conquests. If they had been more patient... maybe Germans would have spoken French  Although, Hitler didn't have much choice, because Stalin would have attacked him sooner or later - only, later would have been better. But on that one, Napoleon made a fatal mistake. *tries to imagine a Napoleonian Empire... a bit like the Roman empire, when thinking of it...* |
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Post by Desert Stallion on Nov 15, 2006 9:01:17 GMT -5
Or Hitler might have attacked earlier and been able to avoid winter altogether. I'm so thankful he was so idiotic when it came to military matters.
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Post by Qualerei on Nov 15, 2006 16:29:27 GMT -5
Yeah, but it's weird because at the time a lot of people called him a military genius (he did conquer several countries without bloodshed - at least at first). I'm thinking of Austria, and Czechoslovakia (did I spell that one right ? In french that would be Tchecoslovaquie, which looks more logical, but well...). Or maybe that was just people flattering him ?
Still, that makes me laugh when Irving says Erwin respected the "military abilities" of Hitler...
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Post by Desert Stallion on Nov 17, 2006 20:20:31 GMT -5
I dunno, but I think mainly it was the free world rolling over on its back and letting Hitler take everything he wanted. Consider Chamberlain from England; his time of peace didn't quite turn out like he thought it would, neither did his catering to Hitler. Hitler was picking off all the little countries too, who were helpless when his many tanks rolled into their town square. Poland tried to defend itself against Panzer attacks with horse and rider. Wouldn't take much brilliance to overcome that. Poor Polish folk...
Austria he took from the inside by sending his stooges in to convert the people.
Irving, yeah, his own ideas are a little strange. They don't really match up with the facts.
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Post by Qualerei on Nov 17, 2006 22:26:55 GMT -5
Yeah, well, in school when we studied that era, the teacher's opinion was that France was just out of a war and wanted to preserve peace at all cost. Which didn't quite turn out as expected. Someone said something like :
"The French had to choose between going to war and keep their honor, or have peace and lose their honor. They lost their honor and they had war."
Which is of course no excuse. Not to mention with czechoslovakia they did loose an allie. Not to mention all the people they let down. When he came back from the talks with Hitler, Daladier expected to be shouted down, and instead he was hailed, and he said the French didn't understand what he had just done.
As for Austria, well, it's true they wanted the Anschluss for a long time. But it did take some nerve from Hitler to act against the Versailles treaty - France and England could have crushed him back in '33 if they had moved. That's the funny part, somehow. Hitler wrote everything he was going to do - gave more informations on his plans than any spy could have - and no one believed him... uh.
As for Irving, I read a page pretty interesting about his trial, and the answers of the accusation. There was all the stuff he had misquoted, and all his manipulations to make facts point his way. The man's pretty bright, whatever his opinions may be.
Actually, he's not even really distorting the fact. Just looking at them with a very peculiar point of view, and quick to overlook what doesn't seem to go his way.
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